We'll send Willie Nelson, somehow I think him and Arafat could 
talk sense, after a fat one. 

Put a tablecloth on Willie's head, who would know the 
difference... LOL

smoking the peace pipe

BCB WORLD NEWS  SUNDAY APRIL 7, 2002

An unprecedented explosion took hold of Jerusalem today, 
rocking the very foundation of the city.
Government officials are still attempting to locate those who 
led the attack, but so far no one  has come forward claiming 
responsibility for the massive bombing.

Although it is rumored that a new organization named "Reality 
Bites" has masterminded this incursion, there has been no 
confirmation of these speculations.

"All we know," stated Mullah Enauf, "is that they bombed the 
crab out of us."
As he surveyed the damages, Enauf shook his head.  "I've never 
seen anything like it.  The Palestinians and Israeli's are 
working together to clean things up.  I've never seen them 
cooperate like this, before."

Some witnesses say a surly looking man wearing a blue checkered 
tablecloth had been seen fleeing the country alone."

"Insha Allah, they sure bombed the crab out of us, alright."  
Enauf mused.



 

Definatly, Johnny Walker Red.

Goodnight all. I swear this time change thing affects me more 
every year.

Good Night all...

Irish coffee, anyone?

A little Ming 14?

Would be nice if they just left the time thing alone...


Sweet dreams

Tell me more about your Nova.  got a 12 bolt?  Or a 10?  350?  
You got some good drag strips there.

.........>>..          

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

LOL = Leg.......................(O)..........................Leg
                       Get the Picture??

You are one fucked up bitch.  I see some of your split 
personalities have not shown up lately.  I guess some of your 
meds that you take are working.  Now if you can just get some 
meds for your temper tantrums.

Oh

Leg.......................(O)..........................Leg

That would explain Sista's stench

Since when did it become a crime to live in a land not torn by 
war?  Oh well.  America, as much as I hate to admit it, we are 
just as much terrorists as they are.  Hiroshema(spelling?), need 
I say more?  Well for the people who may not know what I'm 
talking about I will say more.  Sure we didn't drive airplanes 
into their buildings but we killed over three times as many 
people I believe.  And they were completley innocent civillians. 
 Sure Japan had sneek attacked Pearl Harbor when the US had no 
intentions of joinging the war, but at least they attacked a 
military base.  We attacked children playing in the streets and 
now all that is left of them are images of their last agonizing 
moment burned into a wall for eternity.  No society is a good 
one.  Not even USA.  USA is a probably the most liveable of all 
countries but we are still just as bad of monsters, although 
granted the average US citizen isn't as fucked in the head as a 
suicide bomber, although we do have some.  Although I dont know, 
if I truly believed that 72 virgins would be serving me I'd 
probably be more will to strap a bomb to my chest too.

And I in no way meant in that last post that we should stop our 
efforts against al Queda, he who attacks you is the enemny.  And 
your enemy is the one you fight.

Pearl Harbor, need I say more?  When Japan attacked Pearl 
Harbor, they thrust the USA into WWII.  You say that we killed 
innocent civilians when we dropped the bomb.  Well that is true 
but consider this: by getting us involved in the war, Japan knew 
of the consequences of it's actions.  Yes we killed innocent 
civilians but Japan put it's citizens in that position.  
Innocent lives are a casualty of war.  No the USA is not even 
near being perfect.  We just try to protect our freedoms at any 
cost.  I will say that I love living in the USA but the safest 
that I have ever felt was when I visited Europe and the United 
Kingdom.  Never once did I feel any danger even when walking 
through a town even late at night.  No society in this world is 
perfect but the civilized ones try to be.

No KS we are not terrorists. And study history and you will see 
why Japan was handled the way it was. But remember history has 
been rewritten to cover up the rotten truths. Japan was a 
relentless war monger way back then. 
  What the US is unable to control is it's foreign policy and 
business. But by the same token, foreign governments (if you can 
call them that) suck up to and steal from us and their own 
opressed, uneducated and illeterate people. Then turn around and 
blame it all on the capitalists! Right after they deposit all 
their money in a Swiss bank. 
  Yes we are a country that will defend itself and make it a 
real high price to fuck with us. But as Isreal stomps Palistine 
into the ground, remember, Palistine, Hamas and Arafat lit the 
fuse and they knew full well Sharon was a war pig. Don't do the 
crime if you can't do the time. 
  In all this remember also, Saddam is fueling this war, and as 
guilty for the demise of Palistine as anyone in palistine. As 
for 72 Virgins, butt UGLY ones no I don't think so. And then ya 
gotta figure....72 butt ugly PREGNANT bitches for the rest of 
eternity! Not a pretty picture!
        Leg..............o................Leg 
            AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Justice, if you are right and then the Japanese put their 
citizens in that position then did we not have a say in it?  
Could we not have stopped ourselves?  I'll admit, by dropping the 
bomb many a US soldiers were saved, my grandfather may indeed 
have been one of those saved, he was in the war after all.  Still 
every terrorist has a purpose, that doesn't make them not a 
terrorist.  We are responsible for our own act on that day, not 
the Japanese.

Meryln, yes we are.  Just because we have a good excuse doesn't 
change the fact.  If you have a good excuse for stealing a loaf 
of bread you are still a theif.  Although you are right, people 
tend to blame it on capatalists when things don't go there way.  
Of course placing the blame is easier than taking responsiblity 
and doing things yourself.  As far as the 72 virgins, I'd figure 
to make it desirable they'd say they were beautiful.  And 
hopefully of the same race.  I'm not racist, but I just perfer 
white girls to every other color.

Whenever Hiroshima is mentioned,people tend to forget the facts:
1.Germany was working on the atomic bomb at the same time we 
were.
2.When Truman asked how many American ground troops whould be 
killed in a land invasion of Japan,he was told 1.0/1.5 million 
American dead.250 thousand Japanese died from the 2 a-bombs.
3.Which would you choose?

Not really a comparason, and in intent is where the issue lies. 
Terrorism is a tool used to get a result by implication. One 
Martyr is a tool to bring the thought of the next martyr and 
this differs from war in some very fundamental ways. The bomb on 
Japan was a declared act of war, after a long time of failed 
efforts to avoid it. We didn't just have one attack spur the 
Afghanistan situation, we had been trying to defuse that problem 
for quite some time. Our war on Afghanistan Taliban is not 
terrorism. It is war. Not holy war, but plain flat out war. We 
could have sent a few men to do acts of terror, and be pathetic 
like them, but fuck all that. There is a big difference from 
what Sharon is doing and what Arafat did. Neither is good but 
putting poison in a loaf of bread to scare paople from eating 
the bread is a far cry from leveling the supermarket with a 
daisey cutter. Terror and War are two very different stratagies. 
But again, 72 vergins become 72 pregnant women and that becomes 
72 children and that would be an eternity of screaming two year 
olds, AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Meryln they'd have to tell me that the 72 virgins would be 
incabable of pregnancy.  :P  Besides for it to be constantly be 
72 virgins it'd be a. you couldn't have sex with them, b. as soon 
as you had sex with them they'd dissappear and a new one took 
their place, or c. none of the above.

Walter
1.  Germany doesn't factor into this disscussion
2.  I think there would have been another way.
3.  Sorry if I mad it sound like if I would have done any 
different.  I do wrong.  Everyone does.  Just because I fully 
admit it doesn't make it right.

So now we see Iraq and Iran cutting off the oil in a feeble 
attempt to disrupt the U.S. economic recovery. Since we only get 
20% of our oil from all of the middle east, it should be a short 
term effect.

Saddam is showing such great interest now in the plight of the 
Pale's. He is fanning the fire bigtime. Making it down right 
profitable for the suicide bomber's family to keep preaching the 
hate and hoplessness into their children's heads. I read a 
article about a Pale mother who recieved two checks after little 
Mohamad went boom- boom. One from Iraq and one from Syria. She 
was going to get a new apartment and some new furniture. 
Sickening. Saddam has blood all over his hands.

When I think about Saddam, the first thing that comes to mind is 
what a ego driven maniac he is. I've read some about his rise to 
power in Iraq and what stands out is his need to be THE HERO of 
the Arab world. This nutcase actually believes he WON the Gulf 
War because he stood up to America and stayed in power.

I have not seen this possibility brought up anywhere in reguards 
to his suddenly intense interest in the Pale's. Could Saddam 
launch an attack on Israel? Considering his massive ego and lust 
to be the biggest hero in the Arab world, I do not rule this 
out. A missle attack on Israel WOULD make him a hero, at least 
among the Arab people. It would make the decision of when to go 
after Saddam a nobrainer. Would a already aggitated Israel 
respond to a chemical attack with nuclear strikes. Maybe we 
could sit back and watch the whole Middle East get blown to hell!

Just a scenerio of course. We all KNOW Saddam has no more 
weapons of mass destruction, because he said so.

If Germany doesn't factor into this discussion,then obviously 
we're not talking about WWII,or Japan,or Atomic bombs,but a 
hypothetical situation,which I wouldn't have wasted my time 
trying to answer.Also,there were,in the end,one of two choices to 
be made.Not 92,57,or3.We can say that there would have been 
another way now,57 years later,now that the pressure of making 
that decision is removed from us.Truman stated himself that it 
was a decision he didn't want to make,but had to,and contrary to 
popular belief,Americans are no more intelligent now than they 
were then.

If I punch you in the face are you just going to stand there?  
As I said Japan did put themselves in that position.  They 
refused to surrender when the war was pretty much over.  If they 
had surrendered, the bombs would have never been dropped.  They 
knew what was coming.  Even after the first bomb was dropped 
they still did not surrender.  They started it and we finished 
it.  I never said it was right but at the time it was either the 
USA losing a bunch of lives or Japan.  You and I are probably 
alive in this world because of it. 

Oh my! he cut off the oil supply!, but then there's Kawait or is 
that just Iraq with a different turban? Well, we can clearly see 
where Saddam sits. And like a back seat driver, Saddam is trying 
to direct the fate of the Muslim world into his hands. Arafat 
is  one like Saddam to stand and shout Jihad untill it comes his 
way, then he can only be found hiding under his bed. The likes 
of him to send children to fight his war and offer rewards for 
family's to sacrifice their children, puts the blood of his own 
kind all over his hands! 
  When we wiped the Taliban off of the Afghanistan country side 
Saddam stood and publicaly announced that "America must not win 
in Afghanistan". He did not figure on our stratagy and now is 
trying to destablize the Afghanistan interm government. 
  IN a word, Fuck Saddam. The sooner he makes a wrong move the 
better, and he just made his first one. 

Maybe,in hindsight,what the Japanese needed was a hug.What Pearl 
Harbor meant,in reality,was that they felt abandoned,and that 
they needed to feel loved and wanted.We should have dropped 
phamphlets that said,"We love you,and we forgive you for starting 
this war,and for torturing and murdering our soldiers.Anytime 
you'd like to come to the U.S. and kill some more,we'll be 
waiting for you with arms outstreched."

Yea, we should have gone over and had a love fest with the 
Taliban and dropped flowers on them. Of coarse we could just 
take all the blame for how the Jews and Palistinians have hated 
each other for the past 1500 years. Yes it was all our fault and 
even if we were only around for the past couple hundred of those 
1500 years we must be all to blame. And every act of defense is 
after all terrorism, sure even our 4th of July celebration was 
all about terrorism! Wasn't it? Here we'll build some new trade 
towers & stock them full of Jews for the next 9-11! 

Isn't it just grand knowing we saved the Jews from the last 
world war..................so they could start this one???

It's a grand old flag
It's a high flying flag
And forever in peace may it wave
It's the emblem of the land I love
The home of the freedom God gave
Every heart beats true
for Palestinian and Jew
Where there's never a boast or a brag
Should 'auld aggressions be forgot
Start flying a peaceful flag!

President Bush repeated his demand that Israel pull its troops 
back today and added firmly "I meant what I said". Many were in 
support of the Jews after the passover bombing but they are 
losing that support at a record setting pace. As usual, they all 
expect the U.S. to come and save the day. I've come to the point 
where I really don't give a shit about the Jews or the Pale's. 
The only thing that bothers me are the children. Always a soft 
spot there, the only real innocents.

You know its funny, my father was in the Army from 1937 to the 
end of WWII. He spent most of the war in Europe, in fact my 
sister and I had a half-brother in Austria (war is hell) untill 
4 years ago. My sister still has my fathers decorations and 
papers from the war, and a unit he was in toward the end helped 
liberate a concentration camp. I'll have to look at the papers 
again, its been years and I'm not sure which camp. He talked 
very little about the war even though I asked often, always 
changed the subject to current family affairs. But given what he 
had seen at a concentration camp you would assume he would be 
sypathetic to Jewish causes.

Exactly the opposite. My father hated Jews. Everthing was the 
Jews fault. Favuorite saying: Screwed, Jewed and tatooed. My 
father passed away some years ago, but I've always wondered 
where this hatred came from. I shit you not, every boss my 
father worked for was called "the Jew". To this day I don't know 
where that shit came from. But something happened on my fathers 
journey thru life involving the Jewish that did some damage.

I'm falling through a hole in the flag!

Your last post really got me thinking...I too remember family 
members saying similar things about Jewish people. I didn't 
understand it then and still don't, I'm not even sure they knew 
why but, they did. It's strange how some things come back and 
hit you hard....

I've got an idea:why don't we rebuild the World Trade Center in 
the mideast,so that the terrorists don't have to travel so far to 
destroy it.That way,no American will have to feel guilty if one 
of the terrorists get hurt in a car accident or something.

Wat to go Walter! Godd idea, One less thing I'll have to feel 
guilty about....

Now if I could only spell...

I'd be happy if I could write 2 posts in a row without 
mispelling something.Two s's in mispelling?

You would think with 14 computers in this house That I would get 
this typing thing under control...It must be the keyboards, They 
spell what I press not what I mean...lol

14? Please don't tell me you have one in the bathroom too!

No.... We haven't sunk that low..Yet!

We have three,in a two bedroon Apt.......and those are on a 
network.........kitchen and bathroom are the only rooms without 
one.

The Jews are prooving we arn't so bad after all! :o) He He you 
ain't seen nothing yet! Your dad had very good reason for what 
he said. These relentless ass holes will drive palistine into a 
new Jewish synagauge before they are done. Ever wonder why 
Hitler was able to gain such popularity? You really have to know 
history very well, most of it was changed to cover up the reason 
the jews were and still are persecuted. 
  If you think the Muslims have a holy complex...just look where 
they learned it from...Jews! Jews like getting into management 
positions. They enjoy pissing off gentiles (that's anyone that 
is not a Jew) it is one of their religious rights of passage. 
  SO Muslims came up with infidel and rewrote the wholly book 
and most of history to say THEY are the chosen ones and THEIR 
god is right and so on & on. 
  I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood in west Phili. Pa. and I 
can tell you Jews are really about the biggest Bigots on earth 
and the first to cry wolf about it! They are very self oriented, 
selfish in a word and couldn't give a shit about it. 

I've never had much contact with the Jewish and I always figured 
my father had because he was not one to be pissed without a 
reason.

I will say Sharon is one hard-headed SOB when he does not listen 
to his country's only real ally on earth. Seems the Isreali's 
are talking about pulling back now but not completly out. That 
sounds like my policy reguarding sex. LOL.

Hello, hope everything fine on your side.

Regarding terror in Japan. You don't call that bomb dropping in 
Hiroshima and Nagazaki an act of terror. It is part of war and 
Japan knows that. It is an act of might on who is stronger in a 
fight. Further more US did not bomb the two place immediately 
after the attack on pearl Harbour it was after sometime and 
Japan was creating terror in Asia killing millions of innocent 
lives. Just read the story of rape of Nangking in China. Babies 
were thrown in the air and stap with the bayonet. Men gathered 
and buried alive or have their head chop off by their samurai 
sword, women force into prostition or they call it "comfort gir" 
to serve the advancing army. What the American did was stop all 
these actrocites. Yes nobody with the right mind is happy in 
killing innocent lives.

As for the suicide bomber of Palestinian and other muslims 
radicals they are not Matyrs, they are terrorists. The actual 
Heroes are those Kamikaze pilot who fought the American and 
other British Naval ship in their suicide mission to destroy 
their naval capabilities. These men are bombing their so call 
enemy target not like those coward terrorists.

I think Walter or Merlyn mention that we can also be like them.  
Just sent a few Rambo and hit their civilians target. I tell the 
effect is going to be worse for them. This is what Isreal can do 
too but they are not. So the world must see what is happening in 
the middle east.

Peace be with you all.

Why do women like computers?



Every year the Hard drives just get bigger and have more Ram! 
and they never get floppy. MMmmmmmmmmmmm.............. and the 
processor gats faster & faster........... there is always a 
small slot for a floppy but it is always a short and quick one!

Yes nobody with the right mind is happy in killing innocent 
lives.

I doesn't mean that the American had a wrong mind. In that war 
you rather kill some and save many. The Allies have no other 
choice to end the war and senselss killing.

And yes Germany is involved too.

If the American did not retaliate with Battle of Midway 
immediately after Pear Harbour attack, who knows where the next 
American target will be. When you hit another country not 
fighting with you, you are creating terror, then you are call a 
terrorists. If you hit back in retaliation, it is war. In this 
case Japan was the terrorists asking for war. So in a war no 
civilian are safe. If they can be save there would not be so 
many war refugee in those war torn countries.

As for the 72 virgin serving the so called maytrs. Hmmmm? I 
wonder why, how any religion can use these to lure those idiots. 
Maybe they have 4 golf courses with 72 holes for those idiots to 
put their balls in. heheheee

Must be why I have 14 of them....LOL

About Saddam turning his oil tap off. All this is his propaganda 
show of solidarity with other Arab Nations. Just look 2 months 
back, was he that friendly. He knows that he will be the next 
target and have to get the support from the Arab nation. So he 
came up with his empty promises again of not attacking Kuwait 
again. So the hug, hug and kiss, kiss settled his problem. 
Immediately he start to talk, first he give reward money to the 
suicide bombers in palestinina and the injured. What about his 
own people. So I hope United Nation can see that Iraq is not 
poor afterall.

The funny think about these middle east coutries. They can be 
friend one day, enemy the next and friend again. Palestinian was 
supporting Iraq (read back history) during the Gulf war so they 
made enemy with the rest who is against Iraq. Now they are 
friends again.

I feel what Sharon did is right. Capturing and destroying the 
terrorists network like what the American do to Al qeada, since 
Arafat could not do it. I believe the Isreal will pull out 
before Colin Powell arrive on Friday.

What Bush should have said is that if we can gurantee Isreal 
withdrawal, Can the Arab Nation and Arafat gurantee that there 
would be no more suicide bombings. If there is another suicide 
bombing during or after the withdrawal then American and it 
Allies cannot do anything to stop the Isrealis from attacking 
the Palestinian again.

About the Jewish people, yes we too were brought up to be weary 
of them. They were consider to be shrewed, fussy, self centre 
people. Maybe this was because we were surrounded by Muslims 
Nations so all those grandfather story we hear. We have very few 
Jews in our country. Most of them are doing well in business. I 
do not have any Jewish friend so I am in not position to judge 
them.

I never read of the atrocities in Nangking when I was in 
school,and you might not believe this,but nothing was ever 
mentioned about it.It was not until I was in my mid-20's that I 
ever read a word,or saw photos of what happened there.Not very 
many Americans have ever heard of what happened there.Most times 
when I've brought the subject up,no one knows what I'm talking 
about.For some reason,even though it was as horrible as anything 
the Nazis did,there are no movies about it,and not many history 
books speak of it

Where you talking about "The Nanjing Massacre" When The Japanese 
captured nanjing?

There can be no doubt about the effectivness of Israel's 
operations. It has been at least 8 days since a sucsessful 
suicide bombing, knocked the terrorists back on their heals. The 
IDF has recovered a lot of weapons and ready-to-go bombbelts as 
well as documents with Arafats signature related to the transfer 
of explosives.

Looking at the offensive from a neutral perspective, I have to 
say, the IDF is a kick ass military machine. Damn well trained 
and ready to do the job asked of them. Grade: A+. They still 
have not touched the Gaza strip though. From what I've learned 
recently, thats where the baddest of the bad are.

I still support Israel in their actions. How many pokes in the 
chest is anyone going to take before punching someone in the 
mouth. In my case, one. And a week in work release jail for my 
trouble. LOL!!!

On another subject. What kind of security precautions were taken 
in Malaysia for the worlds tallest buildings? Currently the 
tallest building(s) in the world are the Petronas Towers in 
Kuala Lumpur, they are respectively 1,483 feet tall, although 
they each only have eighty eight stories. 

Did you study it in school?

No, not at all... In school it was almost all U.S. history. I 
just have a desire to learn as much as I can about why we came 
to where we are today...

There's probably web sites about it somewhere.I don't know if 
you'd want to see the pictures.........I know I don't want to 
again.Facts Finder pretty much told the whole 
story........horrible things done to civilians.I think I got the 
name right,but I'm not sure.

Yes walter we read that in history lesson in school and later 
there was a movies, I think it is in Chinese and a book call the 
Rape of Nanking in English. The women force prostitution were 
called Comfort Women not girl, they were force taken from their 
home to serve in Japanese brothel for the soldiers. They were 
not call prostitute because they were not paid but some japanese 
solder do give these girls some money.

I believe you must have read in the news that there are so many 
of these women claiming compensation from the Japanese. Women 
from Korea, Phillipines, Malaysia, Thailand and etc.

I use to hear story about how women would make themslelves as 
ugly as possible or smelly to avoid been taken away to be 
comfort women.

You probably did not get much of the Asian WW2 story because 
your war was more with the German. All I know about the German 
are that they are the partners of Japan and We are fighting 
against them. Watch a lot of American War story about the German 
and also the treatment of the Jews in Schinler's (spelling?) list

Thanks... I have read a little on it but have not seen 
pictures... I think I'll pass on those

http://museums.cnd.org/njmassacre/page1.html
http://museums.cnd.org/njmassacre/

Just after the sept 11, there was a big hoax that the Twin 
Towers were to be attack. So the police and Army were notified 
and the people in the building was evacuated. Till now there is 
no more such threat. Probably Sean Connery and Catherine Zeta 
jones have got their money and leave that building alone by 
disappearing in their new MRT train. If you don't know what I am 
talking about watch Entrapment.

Ok, Ok I went and looked at the pictures. And they call the U.S. 
monsters. I don't know why things like that happen but, they 
sure do seem to ...time after time

Zzzzzzzzz

How nice if the palestinian and the Isreal would settle their 
problem and live in peace and harmony cooperate with each other 
and promote the Holy land to the world. I believe their are alot 
of Christain and Muslim who like to visit those side. Instead of 
fighting and destroying the Holy Land.

Saddam to clear his mind of conquering the Arab world and use 
his oil to generate more money for his people and promote 
tourism not weapon. I read somewhere with details that the 
Garden of Eden is in Bagdad. Hmmm? No wonder Lucifer is still 
there.

Osama would use his Qu'ran and money open more mosque not terror 
camp so that he can preach proper Islam not the type he taught 
the Taliban and bring peace to the non believers not terror.

Arab Nation, would come together and help financially, those 
other poor muslims countries.

If all these could happen maybe the world would be a better 
place.

Just Dreaming. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

You're Truly a breath of fresh air...And I mean that in a most 
sincere way.

Great point! You mentioned before being a businessman! They are 
destroying a tourism gold mine. There's money in them thar hills.

does the board know that merlyn and om/cf like to take it up 
the ass..if that turns you on, u can buy their video..lots and 
lots of homosexual scenes:)

The board doesn't give a flying fuck one way or the other as to 
om/cf or Merlyn's sex practices or preferences.What we are 
concerned with are dingbats with a fantasy of two men who have 
never met having sex together.And beating off while they type 
about it.
 When you are brave enough to come out of the closet,come back 
and post.Until then,please send your fantasy letters to 
Penthouse.
                              Thank You

fuck merlyn

I may not know who but I do know your are seriously fucked up in 
the head. Daddy get in a drunken rage and hit ya in the head 
with the whiskey bottle again, then voilate you repeatedly?

You like kiddie porn!!! you hot hunk of baby insest! I hear you 
like licking the scum from used diapers! No doubt you and Daddy 
have child molestation fantasy in that dark closet while you 
scrump together! 
  You are over qualified for the Gay Lovers League! I'll make 
you a member today! Here call this number and we will take you 
in and Daddy too! (1-804-GAY-LOVE)

If I didn't get some criticism from low life maggots like you I 
would not be doing anything new. Anyone who is cutting edge and 
working to clear the world of scum will get some ass holes like 
you spouting off. You only proove my point all the more. 
  You don't fit in, you are an outcast and no one likes you. You 
will always be looking in from the out side , (Savoy Brown 1979) 
and you will never have a clue. And when you post your filthy 
sad crybaby crap all you do is degrade yourself. Not me. 

how are you working to clear the world of scum?by sucking the 
smegma off your daddys cock?

Your registration is about to expire with the North American Man 
Boy Love Association.  Please send $35 to renew your 
membership.  For future reference, most boys do not like it when 
you cram your extremely small penis in their ear.  Please buy a 
strap-on and tag them in the normal orifice.

get the money from merlyn .....shell make it magicly appear from 
her purse. he said she wants to join,and he sent in video of him 
fucking his own child in the ass to get a membership.

the Low Life Faggots Of America want you! that's right u know 
who! We have an opening for a closet queen like you! You can 
even wear that pink silk suit you like so much. 

oh come on u know who let's go in the closet and play doctor. 
You know you want to
     Love, Daddy

I have 72 goats I need serviced! and u know who, you are the boy 
to do it! You can start today. Please come and scrump my goats. 

we here at QSS[queers in service of Satan],invite any and each of 
you to join us,and live hapier,more useful lives in the service 
of Satan! read our f.a.q.at www.merlynsworld.com for more 
information. see you soon! /|\

do you ever notice that when merlyn gets upset that Daddy&patel 
magicly show imediatly after? strangeisnt it?

Fuck you! I'm on the cutting edge & working to clear the world of 
scum & bad people by making perdictions and gazing into a crystil 
ball! I work on bikes & I'll say you drive a vespa if you make me 
mad! I have a fast computer & I'll have a temper tamtrum and 
write long stuff and clutter the bored with childish infant 
things so dont make me angry!

I don't know what to do.  My dad got drunk on whiskey again and 
ate all of my medication.  I have nothing right now and business 
has been slow with my mom working the corner.  She has only been 
charging $0.50 for a suck and fuck lately because that is all 
she can get.  I can't control the outbursts, FUCK YOU!!!, oh, 
I'm sorry it happened again.  Please somebody help me.  I am 
just a scared little 14 year old that needs some medication.  I 
have no friends and this is my only, PISS OFF DONKEY FUCKER!!!, 
oh, sorry about that.  Pray for me for a speedy recovery.

Love,
u know who

Im sorry sometimes I get carried away with my magic stuff. My 
wife left me....sometimes I know what shes thinking once it was 
before she told me. I got married again but I want my other wife 
back cause shes more manly I like to make posts as a whole bunch 
of other people its cause I'm a selfcentered little girl who 
wants to take over everything. Im sorry but I work on bikes so 
I'm Ok,that means I'm a man doesnt it? I like to look at pictures 
of naked kids but lots of guys do that dont they?
                          /|\ QSS

actually Merlyn did not post that last one dickhead.

http://web.ionsys.com/~ollies/recordsO/slps.html

you cant even get your quotes right you bumbling idiot!
[Savoy Brown Lookin In,1970]

Oooooooo you get so mad! well ass hole, just so you know it is 
only you who is so sick in the head. I didn't poast everything 
you see, ya sick fuck. You have made many others know you as the 
sick sack of shit you are. The stories about you and your mom, 
never came from me. Sorry ass hole. You are wrong. Yes Patel was 
me, and I always am the one exposing you as a closet queen, but 
we all know that because you are a closet fag. Who else would 
call her self "u know who" it's about the most faggot name you 
could pick. That's why I always call you a queer. And you always 
suck my cock when you poast. Ha! you don't even know who is 
fucking with you anymore, you have such a big hate club! 
  Wallow in your little piss pot boy, you suck!

actually he did,childfuck.

all I wanted to do was to get you to admit you were patel,and you 
fell right into the trap like a puppet!hahahahahahahaha.
Notice that people arent talking to you as much anymore?hahaha

I have the original album, in vynal you anal fuck. Yes my quote 
is right. ..... ya got no clue. (Looking in from the out side)
the one before a step farther.  

You relly are sad. Patal was me. Patel was Justice. You really 
are clueless

you and Daddy, one in the same & the puppet game. 

SO fucking what, ass hole. BFD. ES&D 

people talk to me plenty ass wipe. It's you that no one likes. 
Read the board, no one likes u know who. And anyway, WGAF? 
LIMEDILLIGAF?

Its not important now is it? Now that youve been proved wrong! 
you little boy!

Go ride your vespa.......ya queer fuck. It's like fucking a 
sheep. You think it's cool untill somebody sees you.............

No you stupid fuck u know who is not important to any one, least 
of all me. 

SO faggot....................






























































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































be a closet queen     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 

www.savoybrown.com       

thank you so much for showing the whole board what a child you 
are,and proving me right.PUPPETBOY!

as usual,merlyn is clutterhappy again,and trying to mess up the 
board. Now hes admitted he is patel so meybe you should go back 
and look at the shit he said to you om/cf. You might not like 
what you find. Look at all his posting in the last few 
minutes,and anyone can see  his childish temper tamtrum for 
themselves. And he couldnt even admit when he was wrong about his 
savoy brown quote. A childish little puppetboy.

the above crap you posted proves my point, I need not say 
anymore. and if it will help, the space you see is just that not 
the crap you post! At least I leave it blank and don't insult 
the rest of the board like you. 
            Idiot!

You are a 13 year old friendless and sad individual.  Merlyn is 
right when he says that no one likes you.  I pity your existence.

I have the album Merlyn,and it says copyright 1970.You're very 
correct,you need not say anymore.You have proved to me,more than 
once,that you care about nothing beyond your own childish 
self,and your little pranks on the board make that more than 
abundantly clear.I for one am done talking to you as though you 
were an adult.
 

youre caught!hahahahahahahaha!

And YOU will always be a moron,that can't hold a normal 
conversation.

AND YOU WILL ALWAYS BE AN ASSHOLE WHO DOSENT KNOW SHIT!

LOL!!!

AND I WILL ALWAYS BE AN ASSHOLE WHO DOESN'T KNOW SHIT, CAN'T 
SPELL, AND CAN'T FORM COMPLEX SENTENCES THAT HAVE MORE THAN 5 
WORDS.

Another DEAD AMERICAN LOL!!!

Good News another Dead American killed by a grenade blast!

u know who = Merlyn
They are the same person.

Another Dead AMERICAN! LOL

Killed by grenade attack today!

Let us all smile

Another 1,000 dead Al-Qaeda! LOL

Killed by US Forces

Let us all smile

12 dead jewboys and a goat

and a partridge in a pear tree

i have only posted once on this board, that is the first u know 
who post...why do people pretend to be me?  because im the 
greatest......the real u know who

what you have is the cd. the original album has no copyright on 
it. I was produced by Parrot and distributed by London Records 
Inc. But as I remembered it as a late 69 release, might well 
have been 1970. If you actually have the album in vynal tell me, 
Lonesome Dave is sitting in front of a book case on the inside 
cover. He has several old rock & blues albums in his lap. Name 
one. 

shut up loser.

om/cf was caught sucking a dogs dick...thats what i heard..peace

A ledgend in your own mind. 

I did not poast the above to om/cf. get a life ass hole!

u know who has been faking poast. 

Don't know do you. you can fake being walter all you want, you 
still can't answer the question. And it's not on any web site 
either. 

Still can't answer.............can you, yes it was my typo to 
say 79, I ment 69 but such is life. The "A step Further" album 
was also a very good one, but soon Savoy brown became another 
band.........Fog hat. A band Called Cactus made an 
album "restrictions" and often I saw them. Fog hat released rock 
& roll. Here is an easy one, what was on that cover. 

i beleive that cover featured a pit bull licking your mothers 
pussy.i could be wrong

i would like to purchase a video of merlyn and on/cf fucking 
and sucking one another. please let me know where i can 
purchase.thanx

please contact me at feelmymerlyn.com

      i have lots of other gay goodies too..hurry videos are 
running out.
                     peace

Please click on the typewriter above.

u know who's mom is a pathetic slut with no life and has sex with 
midgets.

I like to stick small cantelopes in my ass.  I also 
like small boys.  I really like it when small boys put the small 
cantelopes in my ass.

I feel sorry for you, I really do. To go thru life being that 
fucked up in the head must be tough. You post so much shit you 
can't even keep it all straight, LOL!! What a pathetic fuckup 
you are. Seek some help before you hurt someone, feel free to 
hurt yourself. Do the right thing. 9MM, 147 Grain JHP in that 
diseased head should do the job.

there's a video clip showing some bald dude shoving his entire 
head in your mom's kooch.  and she didn't even flinch!

i did not post the above..i have nothing against u know who.I am 
just a gay dude who is really attracted to the things that 
merlyn and on/cf write about.

i am quite sure u will fit in nicely here....ttfn

Wallyworld, you are soooooo busted!lol!

your mom is a slut among sluts.  she always sticks misc. objects 
(books, plates, footballs, etc) up her snatch when i'm not 
around.

as a matter of fact i could very well me your daddy.  where did 
your mom go to school?

See? I leave you alone and out of the closet for just one minute 
and you already have a gay dude wanting to smell your ass! u 
know who wrote all the slime you see above. U know who.. yer a 
sick fucker! You even got Walter mad! and that takes some doing. 
Now get back in the closet ya Faggot! And yes I hate faggots, 
nothing personal........faggot!

i did not post the above.

  feelmymerlyn.com

   visit with me if you dare
              /|\ PEACE

hey whats up..havent heard from you in awhile..would you like 
some bi-sexual dick. If so,  please tell me.
  Talk at you later.

maybe a jew molested your father..ever think of that..i would 
not hold it against him though

If ya wanna blow me, just ask, don't go round about second 
person. Just ask and I'll tell ya straight up, I don't take 
advantage of the mentally ill. But for you I might make an 
exception. How big is your ear opening?

Fairly obvious that was not my post above I think.

i was driving through downtown the other day and saw a slumped 
figure in an alley on 2nd ave.  i looked closer and realized it 
was your mom sitting against the wall with no pants or pantys on.  
she also had a rubber hose around her waist and a heroin needle 
left sticking on her clit.  i got out of the car and (being the 
compassionate person that i am) walked over to her to help her 
stand up.  i slapped her ass to wake her; and guess what?  her 
first instinct was to reach for my fly and suck me.  so i let 
her.  finally i nutted in her throat, tossed her a quarter, and 
drove off. 

very obvious....

very obvious....

why thats very well thought out..maybe its your sexual 
fantasy..does your dead gay father pop in too, to slip his dick 
in your ass..or is he getting fucked by jews in hell.  peace

Those Afghan poppy fields must be yielding a potent crop this 
spring.

Yep... Lots of it being used on this board..... LOL

Nope. Just you, in the ear, to death.

no.  your mom really is a cum-dumpster.

Maybe it drives a "pinto"----.

Maybe even a 75' Pacer Spy!, now how's about driving creeps like 
u know who off the board? 

I bet he drives a pacer...

as far as them[ it ] contributing to the board---forget "it"---

Spy your presence is required here, and you know it. We shall be 
watching, and hoping.

Just keeping a eye out for the dogs{:@( ya know.

just prowling-----

Good to know.

Its always a good idea to give one's vehicle the once over 
before turning the key. Such things as dangeling wires could 
indicate a possible serious problem. Parked cars left alone are 
a 'accident' waiting to happen. LOL!!!

Hi there, Spy.

got ta go now------I'll be around---------

your mom's teeth are so yellow that when she yawns, traffic slows 
down.

spy = merlyn
 merlyn = gay sex

i hear your a fat pig

oops!  sorry about that.  i was thinking of my whore of a mother.

======================

04/10/2002 : "Bush and NATO chief discuss Iraq, NATO 
expansion" 

U.S. President George W. Bush and NATO 
Secretary-General George Robertson held wide-ranging 
talks on Tuesday that U.S. officials said included Iraq and 
the threat posed by weapons of mass destruction. 


"This is an important moment for NATO," Bush, who 
repeatedly referred to Robertson as "Lord Robinson", told 
reporters after a nearly one hour-long meeting that included 
Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald 
Rumsfeld. 

"NATO must develop new, flexible capabilities to meet the 
threats of the 21st century. We must take on new members, 
securing freedom from the Baltic to the Black Sea," Bush 
said. 

"And NATO must forge a new relationship with Russia that 
is even more constructive so that we can finally and forever 
abolish the divisions that are relics of a previous era," Bush 
added before sitting down with Robertson for dinner at the 
White House. 

Bush made no direct reference to Iraq as he spoke to 
reporters, but he said: "The United States will consult 
closely with our allies as we move forward in the war 
against terror." 

Robertson said they discussed the "common threats that 
we face, both in Europe and in North America, including 
from weapons of mass destruction," and declared: "NATO 
allies will work together to overcome these threats. And I say 
this to you, that we will succeed." 

A U.S. official said after the meeting that the leaders 
discussed Iraq, which Bush considers part of an "axis of 
evil" along with Iran and North Korea. "They consulted about 
the war against terrorism, (the) threat of weapons of mass 
destruction and Iraq," the official told reporters. 

Bush has called for Saddam Hussein's removal from power 
and has demanded that Baghdad accept U.N. weapons 
inspectors or face the consequences, fueling speculation 
that Washington could be laying the groundwork for military 
action against Iraq. Bush has said "all options are on the 
table," but has yet to persuade key allies on the need for a 
military strike on Baghdad. 

The 19-member NATO Western security alliance is 
expected to issue invitations to up to seven countries from 
post-Communist Europe at the Prague summit on 
November 21-22, bringing it border-to-border with Russia. 

Experts say the most likely candidates for early membership 
are the three Baltic republics -- Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia 
-- as well as Slovakia, provided elections in September 
return a pro-Western government, and Slovenia. 

NATO is also negotiating new ties with Russia, which 
aligned itself with Washington following the Sept. 11 attacks 
on the United States. 

NATO and Russia are hammering out details of a new 
forum in which Moscow would sit as an equal partner with 
the 19 nations of its Cold War-era foe, and have a say in 
decision-making on specific security issues. Russia has 
long complained that it has no real voice in the existing 
forum for consultations between Russia and NATO. 

source:WASHINGTON (Reuters) 

============================

You "hear" a whole lot of shit in that screwed up ball of disease
on your neck, huh. Dad been taggin' ya in the head with the 
empty whiskey bottle again? So sorry to hear that. Listen 
closely now, RUN before he rams that sucker, big end first up 
your rectum again! RUN, little U, RUN!!

take your news update and stick it up your gay ass..merlyn does 
not give a fuck.
                     /|\ peace

                 feelmymerlyn.com
                  CUM AND FEEL ME

http://www.ummah.net.pk/harkat/

========================

Damascus 

Syria Times 

politic 

9-4-2002 

Deputy Premier and Foreign Minister Farouk al-Shara? 
received a phone call on Monday from the General Sec-etary 
of the Arab League Amr Moussa. 

The latest developments of the deteriorating conditions in 
the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories were dealt with 
during the phone conversation. 

Consultations were also made on the practical steps to 
implement resolutions of the recent Beirut Arab Summit and 
to confront current challenges. 

Earlier, a phone call was made between al-Shara? and 
Iran?s Foreign Minister Khamal Kharrazi. 

Talks dealt with the latest grave developments in the 
occupied Arab territories and the incessant massacres 
being perpetrated by the Israeli occupation troops against 
the unarmed Palestinian people. 

Views were identical on the necessity of taking measures 
against the continuation of Israel?s aggression in line with 
provisions of the Arab and Islamic summits. 

Meanwhile, al-Shara? received a phone call from the 
Lebanese Foreign Minister Mahmoud Hammoud. 

Talks during the phone conversation centered on the 
deteriorating conditions in the occupied Palestinian 
territories, on ways of backing the valiant Intifada and on 
enhancing the steadfastness of the Palestinian people 
against the Is-aeli aggression in implementation of the 
Beirut summit resolutions.    
=============================
theE.S.D. ...Palestinian aggression is apparently not an 
issue.
==========================

*********************************

Results from theE.S.D. on line pole conducted at an earlier 
point in time on this board.
--------------------------

From: theE.S.D. 
To: 
Subject: OpinionPoll 
Date: Tue Dec 4 21:46:55 2001 
Message:

On Sunday Dec 2 13:13:13 2001 we "published" an article 
entitled "Ishmael".
To those who may want to contribute;we would like to do an 
online opinion poll in regards to the following questions.
Feel free to cut and paste.

****************************************

1.In a free society such as the United 
States,U.K.,Europe,etc.;why is there freedom of choice in 
religion,or even choice of not to believe,without 
repercussions from said goverments or society in general?
(by  "repercussions", we are refering to 
imprisonment,beatings,public scorn,or even death.)





2.In societies that control freedom of said choices;what is 
the purpose of that control over society?




3.Regarding the war on terror;how do you feel about the 
relation between current affairs of now,and Isaac and 
Ishmael of old.Or does it relate?





From: Noah 
To: the ESD 
Subject: opinion poll 
Date: Tue Dec 4 22:53:11 2001 
Message:

1. In a free society such as America, Europe, etc., there is 
freedom of choice because the people understand that 
humans have the capability to choose. The governments do 
not want the insane responsibility of doing God's job (that of 
judging people for their actions and inner-most thoughts). 

2. The purpose of controlling the freedom of these choices 
is simply because they have too much pride to let God be 
God. They are afraid that if people believe something 
differently than they do, then they are in danger of loosing 
people's emotional support, which results in a loss of 
power. 

3. An interesting relation between Isaac and Ishmael. One 
cannot make prophecy false. It is sad that the brothers still 
fight. It may certainly have something to do with the situation 
of today. However, I would say that some the decendents 
are no longer clear anymore. Both children seem to be 
stubborn as donkeys, but only one is trying to fight everyone 
else in the world. Interesting.
------------------------------------------------------------------------



From: Missin' 
To: E.S.D. 
Subject: Quiz 
Date: Wed Dec 5 02:26:48 2001 
Message:

Hi E.S.D.,
I don't know how much help I'll be to you since it may take 
days 
for me to form an intelligent response to your 
questions...but, 
I'll try.

1.In a free society such as the United 
States,U.K.,Europe,etc.;why is there freedom of choice in 
religion,or even choice of not to believe,without 
repercussions from said goverments or society in general?
(by  "repercussions", we are refering to 
imprisonment,beatings,public scorn,or even death.)

I don't know the answer to this.  I know that the founding 
fathers of our country were Christian.  Maybe some were 
Catholic 
and some were Protestant, and that's why they decided that 
we 
should have freedom of choice.  Forgive the lack of 
knowledge of 
history.  The only thing I can say is that I'm glad to live in a 
country where I am free to choose.

2.In societies that control freedom of said choices; what is 
the purpose of that control over society?

In a book I read once about the Middle Ages in Europe, it 
said 
that during that period the church (Catholic) was the only 
intermediary between God and his people.  It was the job of 
the 
church to interpret and teach God's word.  When the church 
began 
to be filled with corrupt people who chose the position for 
the 
power that it brought them, it became evident that they used 
the 
word of God (as they interpreted it) to damn those who they 
didn't like, and to forgive those who they did.  It was at this 
point that the Catholic faith began to splinter into other 
sects.

My point is that anytime religion is used to provide power...it 
becomes corrupt.  Only a corrupt religion, in my opinion, 
demands 100% compliance and belief in ONLY the beliefs 
taught by 
those in power.

3.Regarding the war on terror;how do you feel about the 
relation between current affairs of now,and Isaac and 
Ishmael of old. Or does it relate?  

I'm amazed at how well it DOES relate.  It explains much to 
me.  
I tried, before the 9/11 attacks, to understand what was 
happening in the Middle East.  I have friends that support 
the 
Palestinian views, I have friends that support the Zionist 
views, and I have friends who have much more knowledge 
than I of 
the economics of the region.  I drew heavily from those 
resources, and still only felt that I had partial knowledge.  So 
much of the conflict is the "he did/they did" variety.  I came 
away with the opinion that neither side is all right or all 
wrong.  So, I had to draw a line that made sense to me.  The 
line I drew is that killing innocent civilians is wrong.  
Therefore, even though I may actually have felt more 
sympathy 
with the Palestinians (before I saw them dancing in the 
streets 
on 9/11)...I felt that I would have to support Israel more.  
This being entirely because of the methods each utilized to 
make 
their points.  Now that you've shown me where the conflict 
originated in your Sunday Edition post...I realize that there is 
no right side.  This was set in motion by God himself...and 
only 
God will ever be able to resolve it.  And, in my belief...it 
will serve God's purpose.  I don't know how and I don't know 
why.  "God's ways are not my ways" to paraphrase.  I wish 
that 
it weren't so, but I don't think the conflict will ever end 
until it ends as prophesied in the Bible.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------


From: Smiley 
To: the E.S.D. 
Date: Wed Dec 5 08:00:10 2001 
Message:

1.In a free society such as the United,  
States,U.K.,Europe,etc.;why is there freedom of choice in 
religion,or even choice of not to believe,without 
repercussions 
from said goverments or society in general?(by  
"repercussions", 
we are refering to imprisonment,beatings,public scorn,or 
even 
death.)

I don't know about any other country but I do know that it is a 
historical fact the the United States was founded, in a big 
part, 
on the premise of Freedom of Religion (NOT freedom 
FROM religion 
as many have been brainwashed to believe today.)  
Nowhere in the 
constitution is the phrase or even the idea of separation of 
church and state indicated.  What is mandated is that the 
government will not interfere with the people's free excercise 
to 
worship God (or not, if they so choose.)  If they choose to 
worship other gods, this, too, is there constitional right.  The 
government is also prohibited from setting up a government 
run 
religion.

2.In societies that control freedom of said choices;what is 
the 
purpose of that control over society?

Societies that restrict or control the practice of religion do so 
to divert the people's desire to answer to a higher authority 
than themselves.  There is a deep seated desire in the 
human 
psyche to answer to a power higher than themselves.  God 
designed 
us that way and, like it or not, it is the search for this power 
that drives most human pursuits.  The leaders of these 
restrictive societies understand that if you eliminate all the 
competition they have much better control.   Hitler knew, 
acknowledged and played on this during his rise to power.  
The 
document portion below can be found using the following 
link...see for yourselves.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca/nca-01/nca-01-07-mean
s-30.html

6. SUPPRESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCHES 

A. The Nazi conspirators sought to subvert the influence of 
the 
churches over the people of Germany. 

(1) They sought to eliminate the Christian Churches in 
Germany. 

(a) Statements of this aim. Martin Bormann stated in a 
secret 
decree of the Party Chancellery signed by him and 
distributed to 
all Gauleiters 7 June 1941: 

     "Our National Socialist ideology is far loftier than the 
con- 

                                                                                                         
[Page 264] 

     cepts of Christianity, which in their essential points have 
been taken over from Jewry ***. A differentiation between the 
various Christian confessions is not to be made here *** the 
Evangelical Church is just as inimical to us as the Catholic 
Church. *** All influences which might impair or damage the 
leadership of the people exercised by the Fuehrer with the 
help 
of the NSDAP must be eliminated. More and more the 
people must be 
separated from the churches and their organs the pastors. 
*** 
Just as the deleterious influences of astrologers, seers and 
other fakers are eliminated and suppressed by the State, so 
must 
the possibility of church influence also be totally removed. 
*** 
Not until this has happened, does the state leadership have 
influence on the individual citizens. Not until then are the 
people and Reich secure in their existence for all time." 
(D-75)


3.Regarding the war on terror;how do you feel about the 
relation 
between current affairs of now,and Isaac and Ishmael of 
old.Or 
does it relate?

There is definitely a relationship here.  These conflict in the 
middle east come from origins of thousands of years.  Not 
only 
between Isaac and Ishmael but also between Isaac's son's 
Esau and 
Jacob.

***
The following quote comes from a commentary to be found 
using the 
following link:

http://gospelcom.net/shofar/pp/until/until.php

Though the Palestinians want Jerusalem for the capital of 
their 
own Palestinian state, Palestine, God's word teaches that 
the 
Jewish people will end up in Jerusalem with this city as 
their 
eternal political and religious capital, forever (Psalms 
132:13-14; Ezekiel 37:24-28; and Zechariah 1:14-17).

Ezekiel 35 and Obadiah are both prophecies of a people in 
the 
last days that come to power with the purpose of eliminating 
the 
Jewish state and its people. The people described in these 
passages are the Palestinian people of today, descendants 
of the 
Edomites, Esau.

What we are witnessing today in Israel, the struggle 
between the 
Israelis and the Palestinians, is the precursor to these 
scriptures being completely fulfilled. Since it has never been 
just like it is today, seemingly in lock-step with the word of 
God, Arafat's every action and word move us closer to the 
time of 
fulfilled prophecy.
***

I have included the portion of scripture that describes the 
birth 
of the fore fathers of both Israel and Palestine.  You may 
look 
up the preceding scriptures in any Bible and read for 
yourselves 
the prophecies stated therein.

Genesis 25:19-23  And these [are] the generations of Isaac, 
Abraham's son: Abraham begat Isaac:  And Isaac was forty 
years 
old when he took Rebekah to wife, the daughter of Bethuel 
the 
Syrian of Padan-aram, the sister to Laban the Syrian.  And 
Isaac 
entreated the LORD for his wife, because she [was] barren: 
and 
the LORD was entreated of him, and Rebekah his wife 
conceived.  
And the children struggled together within her; and she
said, If [it be] so, why [am] I thus? And she went to inquire of 
the LORD.  And the LORD said unto her, Two nations [are] 
in thy 
womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from 
thy 
bowels; and [the one] people shall be stronger than [the 
other] 
people; and the
elder shall serve the younger.  And when her days to be 
delivered 
were fulfilled, behold, [there were] twins in her womb.  And 
the 
first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they 
called his name Esau.  And after that came his brother out, 
and 
his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was 
called Jacob: 
and Isaac [was] threescore years old when she bare them.  
And the 
boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the 
field; and 
Jacob [was] a plain man, dwelling in tents.  And Isaac loved 
Esau, because he did eat of [his] venison: but Rebekah 
loved 
Jacob.  And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the 
field, and 
he [was] faint:  And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray 
thee, 
with that same red [pottage]; for I [am] faint: therefore was 
his 
name called Edom.  And Jacob said, Sell me this day thy 
birthright.  And Esau said, Behold, I [am] at the point to die: 
and what profit shall this birthright do to me?  And Jacob 
said, 
Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him: and he sold 
his 
birthright unto Jacob.

Esau  = Edom = Palestine
Jacob = Isreal


As a final note to add to yet another posting I read this 
morning 
by Missin'.  Christ did die for us, for all of us, not just 
a fractional few.  He died the death he did so that the 
prophecies of old would be fulfilled and that those who 
chose to 
search, see and believe might be saved from their own sin.

Thanks for the firm stand Missin' .




From: Radio Europe 
To: the E.S.D. 
Subject: 1, 2 and 3 
Date: Wed Dec 5 15:05:54 2001 
Message:

1.In a free society such as the United 
States,U.K.,Europe,etc.;why is there freedom of choice in 
religion,or even choice of not to believe,without 
repercussions from said goverments or society in general?
(by  "repercussions", we are refering to 
imprisonment,beatings,public scorn,or even death.)

In any given democracy, the constitution protects individuals 
from other individuals. 
In the old world (since the Greeks, who invented these very 
principles) this principle was called bound liberty.
The democracy protects its' citizens only as long as these 
same citizens respect it's civil laws (and therefore each 
individuals' fellow citizen) and of course its' constitution.
In return the citizen who respects the lawmaker is protected 
by the very state.
The latter is the base of the very existance of the state, in 
wich laws are made by chosen representatives from these 
same citizens.
In the antique form of democracy, anyone actively going 
against the constitution OR not respecting law, was sort of 
placed "outside of" it.

Most Western democracies have never been confronted 
with religious groups that are potentially anty-democratic or 
able to bring political instability.
Lately however, an Immans in Europe has, for instance, 
openly declared to have understanding for the punishment 
of homosexuals.
Luckily he will probably be sentenced to jail for a few 
months, since homosexuals are treated like other citizens 
over there, unlike in Muslim states...

Then: 

Amsterdam, the Netherlands, november 29th:
The mayor of Amsterdam has received an official letter from 
rabbi Dr. R. Evers-Emden about the capitals' police forces' 
attitude.  
For years it has neglected complaints about anti-semitic 
behaviour by arabic speaking youths.
It has now become impossible for the rabbis' children to 
visit sinagog without being attacked and harassed by the 
same youths.
In the fifth, consecutive year of his complaining the rabbi has 
decided to launch an official complaint, finally...


What we want to say by this, dear E.S.D., is that a 
democracy can only offer freedom as long as it is not used 
against others with equal rights.
A society should give us all freedom but at the same time 
protect us from others who abuse it.
Most democracies are extremely reluctant to "adress" in a 
political or legal sense, religious groups, political parties or 
ethnic groups from within their society, simply because their 
freedom is guaranteed by its' very constitution.
As soon as these groups' behaviour becomes politically 
destabilising or a clear and proven danger to others (like, 
say, a nazi-statement)....
than that may change.  






2.In societies that control freedom of said choices;what is 
the purpose of that control over society?

Stability, in political, social and most importantly, 
economical favour of its' regime.
That is why it is not unusual for a regime to die, together 
with a head of state...
Usually, the constitution is also fully in favour of the regime, 
in contrast to a democracy where it is made for citizens.
When not, it is mostly manipulated. 
...Like elections in most these forms of state.




3.Regarding the war on terror;how do you feel about the 
relation between current affairs of now,and Isaac and 
Ishmael of old. Or does it relate?


Regarding the above, we think it not a good idea to relate to 
matters "of old". 
We rather see the democratic side of the world take its' 
responsibilities toward anyone posing a threat to it, instead 
of getting its' values get corrupted by propaganda in any 
religions' name.
We do not think this war relates to Isaac and Ishmael of old.
We are also convinced that it is better the other side in this 
war keep its' religious motivations to itself.
These religious motivations are getting more racist by the 
day. 
And we should be careful not to get dragged in to these 
religous visions.


This is about extreme violence, the abuse of a religion, vile 
propaganda,
the accumulation of poor peoples' frustrations, and the well 
organised canalisation of the resuting hatred towards for 
instance the U.S.A....

For even if our enemies were half the worlds' population, 
this cannot be tolerated in a modern, human world, 
for it would simply mean the end of it.




We excuse for our elaborate answers and for not answering 
them directly...


We highly value your posts, for none of us we think have 
come closer to the core of the matter as you have, so far...



From Europe, this was Radio Europe... 

  

From: U.K.Citizen 
To: theE.S.D. 
Subject: Re: Opinion Poll 
Date: Wed Dec 5 18:56:40 2001 
Message:

In answer, if a little late...

1. The nations and areas of the world you specified seem 
(but I 
stand ready to be corrected) to have, through their nation's 
constitutions, succesfully separated to varying degrees 
church/religion from the state. It may be debatable as to 
whether it is a panacea, but at a glance at least, countries 
who 
value secularism find it easier to have faiths that are able to 
co-exist alongside each other rather better than a nation 
which 
has theology as its principle priority. Any religious system no 
matter how valid (only in my opinion I hasten to add), that is 
in some way, a part of the ruling government of that country 
must surely be open to being compromised. Governments, 
and 
persons who constitute the government are in positions of 
power 
over the populace and over the nation they represent (or in 
many 
cases claim to). If a government's priority is to cling onto 
power, then any religion that is involved could also if not 
careful, take on that same mentality. In England, many of our 
indigenous population are babtised protestants overseen 
by the 
Church of England. An ever declining proportion of which , 
are 
not active in church attendance. Numbers may have 
stabilized 
now, or may even be increasing, I cannot give an informed 
opinion if that is the case. The general point, is that in a 
nation where religion is not deemed to be the be all and end 
all, there seems to be more freedom for people to choose 
not to 
worship at all, to change religions and if not accept, then at 
least tolerate other religious worship to some degreee. The 
building of mosques in their neighbourhoods for instance.

On a related issue, Oliver Cromwell who ousted Charles I in 
a 
bitter Civil War some years after the practice of Christianity 
in England had been reformed, put the state as represented 
by 
Parliament as his chief priority 'ahead' of religion, although 
he was very much a staunch protestant himself. Cromwell 
utterly 
refused to be made a King himself after all the effort he put 
in 
to removing the previous King. He ruled as 'defender of the 
nation' for some years during which he was the 'first' 
English 
ruler to allow the building of the very first synagogues in 
England. The influence of religion and the Monarhcy over 
government were never as powerful from his time in power. 
Britian as a nation, with these changes in place steadily 
grew 
more sucessful from then on.

2. Power corrupts...(if only if not careful!),Government in 
whatever form is absolute power, absolute power corrupts 
absolutely...(but again only if not careful!). If religious 
influence is prevalent in the upper reaches of government in 
the 
act of maintaining power...that religion's founding principles 
come under serious threat..and in time...the people who live 
under it, especially if they choose to practice another 
religion.

3. If those living in that region, base their history in these 
specific lines you highlighted, neither side in my opinion 
have 
any future. Such thinking will self-perputuate conflict 
indefinately. It is ALL TO EASY as an outsider to 
comment...but 
it is ONLY by having the courage to look forward to the future 
and not back to the past, that any future worth having, will 
ever be attained.  
         



From: Everyman 
To: E.S.D. 
Subject: Pop Quiz 
Date: Thu Dec 6 14:23:48 2001 
Message:

****************************************

1.In a free society such as the United 
States,U.K.,Europe,etc.;why is there freedom of choice in 
religion,or even choice of not to believe, without 
repercussions from said goverments or society in general?
(by  "repercussions", we are refering to 
imprisonment,beatings,public scorn,or even death.)

In the words of our forefathers:


'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are 
created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with 
certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, 
Liberty 
and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, 
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just 
powers 
from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form 
of 
Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the 
Right of 
the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new 
Government, laying its foundation on such principles and 
organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem 
most 
likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, 
indeed, 
will dictate that Governments long established should not 
be 
changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all 
experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to 
suffer, 
while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by 
abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But 
when a 
long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably 
the 
same Object evinces a design to reduce them under 
absolute 
Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off 
such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future 
security'


2.In societies that control freedom of said choices; what is 
the purpose of that control over society?


Just that--CONTROL
POWER
An imposition upon and manipulation of others for the 
benefit of 
a few.  Talk about an abusive relationship!

(A feeling of inadequacy, perhaps?)




3.Regarding the war on terror; how do you feel about the 
relationsip between current affairs of now, and Isaac and 
Ishmael of old. Or does it relate?

I think it does relate.  It is part of the  collective 
consciousness  that we all hold within us.
For many, Ishmael is regarded as the  illegitimate  son.  
Ishmael is equated with stubbornness, violence, and 
irrationality.  In the words of Swedenborg:

 People whose rationality consists only of truth--even though 
it 
is truth that comes from faith--and not of the good of 
kindness 
also, are of this character. They are quick to find fault, make 
no allowances, are against all, regard everyone as being in 
error, are instantly prepared to rebuke, chasten, and punish, 
show no pity, and put no effort or energy into redirecting 
people's minds. They view everything from the standpoint of 
truth, and nothing from the standpoint of goodness. In short, 
they are hard people. 

 He shall be a wild donkey.  His hand against all.  Genesis 
16:12

Issac, on the other hand, is represented by spiritual 
rationality, peacefulness, returning good for evil; instead of 
fighting for land and wells, he went out and found new land, 
and 
after a time had people coming to him for advice on how to 
live 
peacefully; even his enemies.

So yes, we have those who wish to fight and those who 
wish to 
live in peace.

'They shall beat their swords into plowshares and their 
spears 
into pruning hooks.
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation. Neither shall 
they learn war anymore.'
Isaiah 2:4 

Don t you think it s time for  Ishmael  to wake up and smell 
the 
coffee?  No good is being accomplished by imposing 
violence upon 
others.





From: Ashraf 
To: E.S.D. 
Subject: ... 
Date: Fri Dec 7 17:37:38 2001 
Message:

Thank you for directing the questions to me.. I appreciate ur 
gesture.. About being enlightened with what I have to say in 
response to ur question, I doubt that will happen, but here 
are 
my responses any way:

Question 1:
In a free society such as the United 
States,U.K.,Europe,etc.;why is there freedom of choice in 
religion,or even choice of not to believe, without 
repercussions from said goverments or society in general?
(by  "repercussions", we are refering to 
imprisonment,beatings,public scorn,or even death.)
Answer:
In the above countries, human rights is not a banner ad that 
is 
used for propoganda. It is a belief that is actually followed by 
the leaders and civilians of the said countries. Therefore, 
since the freedom
of religion is a part of any human being, the matter is 
considered to be sacred. 
In most of other countries of the world, it is non-existant, and 
if at best it is, then it is tolerated to a minimal extent, as 
long at it is in conformity with its own policies.. ie it is 
virtually non-existant in most countries..

Question 2:
2.In societies that control freedom of said choices; what is 
the purpose of that control over society?
Answer:
The oppression of its people, to blindly follow the religions 
laid out before them, to ensure that the over all tide in the 
country they are in control of, would automatically justify any 
decisions taken by the higher authorities, without question, 
since such decisions have been taken in the name of the 
dominant 
religion of that country. They give no regard to the 
individual's opinion nor to his freedom of choice, and view 
him 
merely as a means to an end.. So why should his freedom 
of 
choice not be oppressed as well..??

Question 3:
Regarding the war on terror; how do you feel about the 
relationsip between the current affairs of now, and Isaac 
and 
Ishmael of old. Or does it relate?
Answer:
I understand the statement you are trying to make.. but when 
one 
speaks about or in the name of religion, one has to be 
careful. 
Therefore, please give me sometime to prepare my answer 
in the 
manner that will do justice to the question in hand.. But yes, 
I 
do believe they relate..

And thank you for these intelligent questions..

Peace..


================================

=======================
Ishmael
=======
Ishmael, from the Hebrew word meaning God hears, was 
the son of Abraham and Hagar, the Egyptian maid of his 
wife Sarah. When Sarah had found herself not having 
children, she arranged to have a child with Abraham by 
Hagar acting as a surrogate mother (Genesis 16:1-4), even 
though God had specifically stated that a child would be 
born to Sarah in due time (see Isaac). The result was bitter 
conflict between Ishmael and Isaac, and their descendants, 
that has gone on right to the present day.

Ishmael was born at Mamre, when Abraham was 86, 11 
years after Abraham's arrival in what would become the land 
of Israel (Genesis 16:3). He grew up to be a man of the 
desert wilderness, with a wild and hostile attitude toward 
people, exactly as God described him to his mother before 
he was born:


"Behold, you are with child, and shall bear a son; you shall 
call his name Ishmael; because The Lord has given heed to 
your affliction. He shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand 
against every man and every man's hand against him; and 
he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen." (Genesis 
16:11-12 RSV).

When a feast was held to celebrate the weaning of Isaac, 
who was born 13 years later, Ishmael caused trouble by 
insulting and mocking his little brother (Genesis 21:8-9). 
After Sarah, who by then had come to dislike both Hagar 
and Ishmael, saw what he was doing, she said to Abraham 
"Cast out this slave woman with her son; for the son of this 
slave woman shall not be heir with my son Isaac." (Genesis 
21:10 RSV)

Abraham at first resisted Sarah's demand - despite 
Ishmael's difficult personality, Abraham loved him and did 
not want to see him go. God however settled the matter:


"But God said to Abraham, "Be not displeased because of 
the lad and because of your slave woman; whatever Sarah 
says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your 
descendants be named. And I will make a nation of the son 
of the slave woman also, because he is your offspring." 
(Genesis 21:12-13 RSV)

Hagar and Ishmael were sent away, but they were not 
abandoned. God appeared and spoke to Hagar, assuring 
her that He would watch over them and see them prosper 
(Genesis 21:17-19). "And God was with the lad, and he 
grew up; he lived in the wilderness, and became an expert 
with the bow. He lived in the wilderness of Paran; and his 
mother took a wife for him from the land of Egypt" (Genesis 
21:20-21 RSV).

Isaac and Ishmael apparently did not meet again until 
Abraham died: "Isaac and Ishmael his sons buried him in 
the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of 
Zohar the Hittite, east of Mamre, the field which Abraham 
purchased from the Hittites. There Abraham was buried, 
with Sarah his wife" (Genesis 25:9-10 RSV). The place 
today is known as the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron, 
where the conflict for control of it still rages between the 
descendants of Isaac and Ishmael.

Ishmael lived 137 years (Genesis 25:17). He had 12 sons, 
who became the founders of Ishmaelite tribes that spread 
from Egypt to what is today Iraq. Many of the modern-day 
Arab peoples correctly recognize that they are the 
descendants of Ishmael, while the Jews, and the rest of the 
Israelites, are descendants of Isaac - but all are descended 
from Abraham.

========================
related scripture: Galatians 4:21-31
========================

Galatians 4:21-31

4:21"Tell me, ye that desire to be under law, do ye not hear 
the law?" 
4:22"For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by 
a bondmaid, the other by a free-woman." 
4:23"But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the 
flesh, but he of the free-woman was by promise."
4:24"Which things are an allegory: for these are the two 
covenants; the one from the mount Si'-nai, which gendereth 
to bondage, which is A'gar."
4:25"For this A'gar is mount Si'nai in Arabia,and answereth 
to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her 
childern."
4:26"But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the 
mother of us all."
4:27"For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; 
break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate 
hath many more childeren than she which hath an 
husband."
4:28"Now we, brethren, as Issac was, are the childeren of 
promise."
4:29"But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted 
him that was born after the Spirit,
even so it is now."
4:30"Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the 
bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman 
shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman."
4:31"So then, brethren, we are not childeren of the 
bondwoman, but of the free."

=================

From: Radio europe 
To: John, Allatti2d, others... 
Subject: crunch time 
Date: Mon Nov 26 18:01:24 2001 
Message:

The Character of God in Bible and Qur'an

A Study In Contrasts 

These are the notes of the Christian speaker from a 
Muslim-Christian dialog end of 1998
The Muslim speaker's notes have not been made available 
to us 

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen! I think tonight we are 
witnessing a very exciting event, since it is not very often that 
Muslims and Christians get together to listen to each other. 
And I would like to put the emphasis tonight on truly 
listening to each other. 

I have not come here with my boxing gloves. I have not come 
here to score points or win an intellectual battle. I am sure 
most of the Christians and the Muslims out in the audience 
have already raised their defensive walls quite high and are 
ready for a good fight on the stage. Well, I would like to ask 
everyone to make a conscious attempt to lower their walls 
and try to listen empathetically to the position of the other 
side. After 1400 years of debates and polemical exchanges 
between Muslims and Christians, a deep gulf of 
misunderstanding still separates the two communities of 
faith. 

Just to cite one example, a great contemporary Muslim 
writer, Shabbir Akhtar, can still say, 


"Most Muslims, including educated ones, know next to 
nothing about Christology. Few Muslims can distinguish 
clearly between the view that a man claims to be divine - a 
blasphemy - and the entirely different view according to 
which God volunteers to become human - the orthodox 
Christian conviction. And both of these views are routinely 
confused with the heretical doctrine that God `adopted' a 
son... A Muslim cannot reasonably claim to be seriously 
engaged in dialogue with Christians unless he can 
possess a thorough knowledge of the Christian faith..."[1] 

Of course, one can put the same charge towards Christians 
and their ignorance of the Islamic faith and the many 
negative stereo-typed images that Christians have 
developed against Muslims. 

So, once again, my request is that tonight we would all 
make an extra effort to really listen and thus take one step 
closer towards a mutual understanding of each other's 
position. 

Having said that, I must note that I am not advocating that 
we ought to brush aside the deep and genuine differences 
that divide Islam and Christianity. In fact, in my lecture 
tonight, I would like to highlight five points of tension that I 
notice as a Christian when I compare the doctrine of God as 
it is developed in the Christian faith with the view of God 
expounded by the Qur'an and historic, orthodox Islamic 
theology. 

I would like to start with an analogy. I am not very musically 
minded, but I can imagine that if one immerses himself or 
herself in the musical style of a great composer, one can tell 
which pieces belong to the genuine composition of this 
great musician and which pieces are not genuine. One 
begins to develop a "feel" for what a composer sounds like. 
I guess that same thing can be true of great painters or the 
great poets. Some of you might know the "feel" of the poetry 
of Hafiz or Rumi so well, that you can immediately tell if a 
piece of poetry is written by them or not. 

In a same way, when I pay close attention to the character of 
God portrayed for us through the biblical narratives and then 
I compare it with the Qur'an, I get the strong sense that the 
Qur'an plays a different tune, that it does not exactly match 
the God of the Bible, even though the Qur'an claims to be 
from the same God. 

This is not an exhaustive list, but I would like to bring to your 
attention, five areas of disagreement between these two 
portraits of God. These areas concern the issues of THE 
INTIMCAY OF GOD (with his people), THE SUFFERING OF 
GOD, THE LOVE OF GOD, THE KNOWABILITY OF GOD (the 
question regarding whether we can know the character of 
God, what God is like), and THE HOLINESS OF GOD. 

The reason that I would like to focus on these fundamental 
characteristics is that they provide the foundational basis for 
such distinctive Christian concepts as the doctrine of the 
Trinity, the incarnation and the atonement. Oftentimes, 
Muslims and Christians argue ad infinitum about these 
specific Christian doctrines and don't come to any better 
understanding of each other, because they have not realized 
that their disagreement about the nature of God is even 
more foundational than they had thought. There is no use 
talking about more advanced concepts, if we don't even 
have the basics down, no use arguing about the complex 
formulas of advanced calculus, if we have not understood 
the simple principles of arithmetic. 

So, let me now elaborate on what I mean by these areas of 
disagreement that I have highlighted. 

I. The Intimacy of God 

A.   The dominant Qur'anic picture is that of a master and 
servant. Even though there is a Qur'anic verse that claims 
that God is closer to the people than their own jugular 
vein,[2] nevertheless, the idea of God's intimacy with his 
people is not very much developed in the Qur'an or in 
orthodox Islamic theology. In fact, sura 50:16, is set in the 
context of the angels recording man's deeds for the day of 
judgment. God is constantly referred to as a Sovereign 
Master (although he is Rahman and Rahim). He is gracious 
and is the source of all the bounties of the earth, but overall 
the image is that he is far above and beyond the struggles 
and the tragedies in the human realm. 

Once again, Shabbir Akhtar gives us the following insightful 
comments: 


Visitors to the famous Cordoba mosque in Spain cannot fail 
to read the ubiquitous inscription, `He is the dominant 
(Huwal-ghalib)'. What a revealing index to the Muslim 
mind![3] 

Furthermore, 


Muslims do not see God as their father or, equivalently, 
themselves as the children of God. Men are servants of a 
just master; they cannot, in orthodox Islam, typically attain 
any greater degree of intimacy with their creator.[4] 

Kenneth Cragg, in his classic book, The Call of the Minaret, 
points to the same basic insight. After briefly reviewing the 
99 most beautiful names of God (Asma' al-Husna) in the 
Qur'an, he observes, 


This eternal and all-encompassing God is described as 
"the Creator," "the Fashioner," "the Life-Giver," "the Provider," 
"the Opener," "the Bestower," "the Prevailer." God brings to 
life and brings to death, is "the Reckoner" and "the 
Recorder," "the King of Kingship" and "the Lord of the 
Worlds." It is repeatedly declared in the Qur'an that there is 
no strength and no power save in God, who "is over all 
things supreme." ... 

The relative frequency with which the different names occur 
is a matter of deep interest. Terms, or their corresponding 
verbs, that have to do with strength, majesty, greatness are 
most prominent.[5] 

B.   Of course, the Bible also presents us with the picture of 
a Sovereign God who is the infinite one and the creator of 
the universe. However, the Biblical faith also describes 
God's relationship with his people in many tender 
passages in which God is portrayed as a father who 
teaches his child to walk (Deut. 1:31, Hosea 11:1-4),[6] a 
shepherd who carries his lamb in his arms (Isa. 40:11),[7] a 
lover who woos his beloved, and even a husband who 
longs for his unfaithful wife to return (Jer. 3:1,12,14).[8] 

We are confronted with a God who dwells in the midst of his 
people and desires to have an intimate relationship with 
them. The book of Revelation, the last book of the Bible, 
gives us a glimpse of the fulfillment of God's relationship 
with his people, when the author states, 


And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the 
dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They 
will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be 
their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will 
be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old 
order of things has passed away." [Rev. 21:3-4] 

  

II. The Suffering of God 

A.   The God of the Qur'an shows his mercy to humankind by 
sending prophets to guide the people to the straight path. 
God sends prophets to various people groups but judges 
the disobedient nations (oftentimes by destroying them) 
when they don't listen to God's prophets (see the sura of the 
poets, al-Shuara, as one example of this prominent Qur'anic 
theme). God's dealings with people are reported in a very 
matter of fact way. To cite one example, I would like to focus 
your attention on the stories of Noah. The Qur'anic 
passages which have more of an extended treatment of 
Noah are found in sura 7:59-64; 11:25-49; 23:23-30; 
26:105-122; 37:75-82; 54:9-15; and sura 71:1-28 which is 
the sura of Nuh. In all these passages, Noah warns his 
people, they disbelieve in his message and God sends the 
flood to destroy the unbelievers. Period. We are not told 
anything about how any of this, whether the peoples' 
sinfulness or the judgment of God, affects God himself. 

B.   The Bible on the other hand presents us with a God who 
suffers because of his disobedient people. He is grieved, 
he is angered. The prophets of Israel reveal him as a 
wounded lover, a husband who feels the pain of betrayal 
because of his unfaithful wife, a father whose heart is 
broken because of his rebellious children. I will get back to 
these images, but to continue our example of Noah, let's 
begin by looking at Gen. 6:5-7 : 


The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth 
had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his 
heart was only evil all the time. The LORD was grieved that 
he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with 
pain. So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I hav